In the 100th episode of the HR Digitalization Podcast, we bring you a sponsored episode in collaboration with Hailey HR and Payap – where we focus on a highly relevant topic: the connection between HR and payroll systems. Despite being dependent on each other, HR and payroll are often treated as separate worlds without a unified flow.
Joining us in the studio are Rebecka Melander, Product Manager at Hailey HR, and Mikael Wirén, CEO and founder of Payap. Together, we discuss why it’s high time to rethink – and reimagine – how HR and payroll work together. You’ll hear how modern technology enables smoother integration, what’s needed to avoid common errors, and how a well-designed connection can reduce both duplicate work and the risk of mistakes.
Rebecka and Mikael also share their best advice for those considering an upgrade or system switch. What should you keep in mind? What questions should you ask? And how might AI play a role in the future?
This episode is packed with insights, inspiration, and practical examples – perfect for anyone ready to take the first step toward smarter, more integrated HR and payroll management.
Want to know more?
Learn more about Hailey HR here: https://haileyhr.com/sv/mini-demo/
Learn more about Payap here: https://www.payap.se/demo
Note: This episode is in Swedish. A translated transcript is available below.
Transcript:
Anna Carlsson: Today we’re celebrating two things – the 100th episode of the HR Digitalization Podcast and the fact that summer is just around the corner. This is the final episode of the season, and this time you’ll be listening to a sponsored episode. After this, we’ll take a summer break, and the podcast will return on August 18.
And what an episode it is – in collaboration with Hailey HR and Payap, we dive into a topic that truly affects every organization: the connection between HR and payroll. Two worlds that should be seamlessly connected – but are often siloed, manually managed, and unnecessarily complicated.
In the studio, you’ll hear from Rebecka Melander, Product Manager at Hailey HR, and Mikael Wirén, CEO and founder of Payap. We discuss why HR and payroll systems must work smarter together, what’s possible with today’s technology, and why real change is achievable – if we dare to challenge the status quo and consider replacing solutions built on outdated technology.
We explore what a truly great HR-payroll integration can look like, which common problems are actually avoidable, and what it takes to build a modern, secure, and simple solution for both HR and payroll.
You’ll also hear a real customer case from Bokadirekt that shows what happens when you dare to think differently – and at the end of the episode, both Mikael and Rebecka share their top tips for those looking to improve how HR and payroll work together, as well as how they think about AI in their respective solutions.
My hope is that this episode gives you the inspiration and motivation to take the first step toward something better.
Anna Carlsson: Welcome to the HR Digitalization Podcast!
Rebecka Melander: Thank you so much!
Mikael Wirén: Thank you!
Anna Carlsson: Today we have Mikael and Rebecka in the studio. So exciting to talk about—what are we talking about? HR and payroll—two truly modern solutions, I’d say. We’ll get into that. But let’s start with some introductions. So, who are you?
Rebecka Melander: Shall I start?
Anna Carlsson: Yes.
Rebecka Melander: My name is Rebecka. I work as Product Manager at Hailey HR, and I’ve been at Hailey for about four years now. As Product Manager, I make sure that our product solves our customers’ needs while aligning with our own product vision. I’m involved in investigations for new development and prioritize what we build and when. That’s what I do today.
Anna Carlsson: That’s really interesting—because that’s a tough balance.
Rebecka Melander: Very much so.
Anna Carlsson: We might come back to that later.
Rebecka Melander: Absolutely.
Anna Carlsson: But what’s your background beyond that?
Rebecka Melander: I have a background in Human Resources. I started out working in recruitment and then joined Hailey through the Customer Success department. I helped build that function and discovered my interest in the tech side. So now I combine HR, supporting people, and working on the product and technology side.
Anna Carlsson: What is that department?
Rebecka Melander: Customer Success, yes. We make sure our customers succeed in using the platform in the best possible way for their organization. That’s what the department is responsible for.
Anna Carlsson: So, it’s the customer-facing team?
Rebecka Melander: Exactly. Customers get a dedicated contact person who ensures the system is used and adopted effectively throughout the organization. That’s how I started.
Anna Carlsson: And now—very exciting.
Rebecka Melander: Super exciting! Very fun!
Anna Carlsson: And you, Mikael?
Mikael Wirén: My name is Mikael and I’m the CEO and co-founder of Payap, where we develop a modern and user-friendly payroll system. I also have a background in HR. I worked in HR for a few years before joining Visma, where I started working in payroll and payroll systems. Then in 2020, I left to start Payap.
Anna Carlsson: And what exactly is Payap? Tell us briefly—what do you do?
Mikael Wirén: Payap is a full-fledged payroll system that handles the entire payroll process from start to finish. From when an employee registers things like absences to when an administrator completes a payroll run. That’s what we do at Payap.
Anna Carlsson: But that’s a bit unique, right? Most payroll systems have been around for many years—so you basically started something entirely new.
Mikael Wirén: Exactly. That’s what we saw when we started this journey. It was a pretty outdated market where not much was happening. Very little innovation, and old systems. We saw firsthand how difficult it was for customers to work with those systems. So with that in mind, we decided to start Payap.
Anna Carlsson: When was the first version released?
Mikael Wirén: The first three years were spent developing the product, together with pilot customers. The first real customer went live about two years ago, and last year, 2024, was largely focused on onboarding new customers—and that has continued into this year as well.
Anna Carlsson: We’ll talk more in-depth about the solution later, but what kind of customers use Payap? Any particular size or industry that it’s suited for?
Mikael Wirén: We sell in two ways. You can be a direct customer—then we usually look for companies with around 50 employees and up. Our biggest customer today has about 500 employees, but we’re happy to take on even larger ones. We like complex customers—white-collar businesses, but also companies with various collective agreements, and so on. We also sell via partners, like payroll and accounting firms, and they serve everything from small companies to large ones like our direct customers.
Anna Carlsson: So it’s payroll in Sweden we’re talking about?
Mikael Wirén: For now, yes—it’s payroll in Sweden. But we definitely aim to expand into new markets in the future.
Anna Carlsson: And Hailey is perhaps better known in Sweden?
Rebecka Melander: Maybe.
Anna Carlsson: But what do you actually do?
Rebecka Melander: What do we do…?
Anna Carlsson: Elevator pitch!
Rebecka Melander: The Hailey elevator pitch is that we want to bring all HR processes into one single platform—one that HR, managers, and employees actually want to use. Not something seen as a necessary evil. Our goal is to manage the entire employee journey in one place.
Anna Carlsson: All HR processes?
Rebecka Melander: Yes, exactly. It’s a subjective thing, of course. But that’s our vision: to include as much as possible within the HR domain. Everything HR manages, what managers need in their leadership roles, and also what affects employees—especially in areas where our domains overlap, like with some employee data. Ultimately, our goal is to cover all HR processes.
Anna Carlsson: And you two—as companies—you have some similarities, right?
Rebecka Melander: Yes, definitely.
Mikael Wirén: For sure.
Rebecka Melander: A clear one is that we were both founded in 2020. I think that shapes a lot—being born in the same era. We talk about modern technology, market needs, and I think that’s shaped our focus on usability and integration. We’ve both built our platforms with today’s technologies in mind.
Mikael Wirén: Yes, absolutely. Both companies were founded because something was missing. I know that was true for you as well—it definitely was for us. Another key factor: we were founded after GDPR came into effect, when awareness around data privacy had grown. So both our platforms have been built with that regulation in mind. Security and data protection have always been a core focus.
Anna Carlsson: I’m also thinking about how much flexibility you gain from building something in 2020 and beyond. I do a lot of training, and I often talk about the “technology legacy” that many older systems carry. They simply weren’t built to take advantage of modern ways of developing. SaaS, for example, hasn’t been around that long, and being able to build on that foundation—creating a stable but flexible system—really makes a difference. What impact has that had? People often assume payroll must be complex. Do you agree? Payroll systems have traditionally followed a rigid structure. I should probably look up when some of the other systems were actually developed—I think I have that in a list somewhere. Do you think it’s really the technology that makes the difference for you, or is it also about your philosophy around payroll?
Mikael Wirén: That’s a great question. Payroll is complex. Let’s be clear about that from the start. There are many calculations, many different data points that interact with each other. It’s a constant challenge to build a user-friendly system in such a complex environment.
But if you look at older systems, they were often built just for the payroll administrator—there wasn’t even an expectation that other users would interact with the system. And those systems just kept growing and evolving from there.
They weren’t built with integration in mind either. They didn’t have the technology to build modern integrations in the way we’ve been able to. From the start, we’ve had the ambition to integrate with other systems, and we’ve been able to build our product based on that.
Anna Carlsson: So, really, two key things: the end user—being able to both receive and send data—and being able to act as both “slave” and “master” in the integration relationship?
Mikael Wirén: Exactly. We’ve really started from the employee’s perspective when building our product. Employees haven’t always had a great experience with payroll systems. Usually, they just get a payslip with a bunch of numbers in a confusing format—impossible to understand unless you’re trained in payroll. So we’ve really worked hard to create a good experience for the employee too.
Anna Carlsson: I realize I didn’t ask you more about Hailey. We talked about the elevator pitch and how it’s also for the user—different types of users. But what kind of customers benefit from your solution?
Rebecka Melander: If we look at who’s using our platform today, there’s a wide range—from companies with just a few employees to those with thousands. Also a wide range in terms of industry. But of course, we do have a target customer in mind when developing new functionality.
You can’t please everyone, so we focus on companies with around 100–500 employees, often white-collar businesses. We believe that if we solve their problems well, we’ll also be solving many of the same issues for other kinds of companies. So that’s the profile we aim for.
Anna Carlsson: Sounds like you have very similar target audiences—and a similar mindset around usability. But your solutions are aimed at employees directly, and also managers and HR?
Rebecka Melander: Yes.
Anna Carlsson: And your audiences include employees, managers...
Mikael Wirén: Yes, and payroll administrators.
Anna Carlsson: So, three key groups: employees checking their pay, managers approving and overseeing their teams, and administrators making sure people get paid. Does everyone understand the difference between a payroll system and an HR system? Because sometimes it’s the same thing. Again, it goes back to the history of the systems. I often say there are 38 or 39 different HR systems active in Sweden, and some of those are payroll systems. But how would you describe the difference between an HR system and a payroll system to someone working in payroll versus someone in a more generalist HR role? Who wants to start?
Mikael Wirén: It depends a bit on what you include in the concept of an HR system, I think. As you said, in the past, the payroll system often was also considered the HR system—but then it was more about having a registry. You wanted to track employees’ skills and what training they had, whether they had a forklift license, and so on. But I think that has changed in recent years. Now you have systems like Hailey and others that are focused on actual HR processes—supporting recruitment, preboarding, onboarding, ongoing development, and so on. So it really depends on how you define “HR system.” But when it comes to those processes, the payroll system doesn’t help. Payroll systems should focus on payroll.
Anna Carlsson: Exactly. But it’s still data—and that’s where the dialogue needs to happen. Data and employees.
Mikael Wirén: Right. I remember when I worked in HR—payroll was the "truth." If you wanted to know when someone started, how long they’d been employed, what skills they had—you went to the payroll system. But there was a lot of frustration from HR around always having to go to payroll to ask for that information. So I fully understand how HR systems found a market. It wasn’t always pleasant working like that in HR.
Anna Carlsson: Especially if those systems weren’t built for usability—if it wasn’t easy to extract data, or if access was limited. I often say, maybe a bit provocatively, that payroll systems are designed for the administrator—but not even the administrators necessarily find them easy to work with.
Mikael Wirén: That’s very true. I’ve seen it up close. Often the payroll admin has learned how to perform their monthly tasks in the system—but if they need to do something outside the routine, something completely new, like adding a new employee category or generating a report they’ve never done before—then it becomes unfamiliar and intimidating. That’s the reality of many older systems.
Anna Carlsson: And when it comes to HR systems—do people understand what’s included in them when you’re talking with customers? Maybe you’re not as involved in onboarding now?
Rebecka Melander: A bit less than before, but yes. I agree with Mikael. HR has really gained a new position in organizations in recent years, and that’s where the need for proper system support has grown. It’s about different processes. And just like Mikael says—HR is something different than payroll. We absolutely see payroll as complex, with a lot of calculations and a critical need for accuracy. So we’re happy to stay away from that and focus on the more people-centered processes.
Anna Carlsson: So as a follow-up to my question—HR often wants some payroll data too, right?
Rebecka Melander: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: Like when working on pay transparency or salary reviews—do those happen in the payroll system or the HR system?
Rebecka Melander: That probably varies. But from our perspective, HR is involved, so we want that to happen in our platform. If your organization uses one system for recruitment, contract signing, preboarding, and onboarding, and collects all that data—then it doesn’t make sense to repeat that process just to get the info into a payroll system. In our view, it should “just happen.” When it comes to things like salary reviews and pay equity, you often need to include qualitative data too—performance over the past year, goals, even notes from performance reviews. Those are better managed in the HR system, and we want to feed that data to the payroll system.
Anna Carlsson: And then of course, if you operate in multiple countries, you often need multiple HR systems—since many are localized. That makes it more obvious. But in a Swedish company, that boundary might not be as clear. People may assume that everything should be in the payroll system. HR often wants just one system to handle everything. But that’s not really how it works.
Rebecka Melander: Exactly. Among our customers, many operate in several countries, and when it comes to HR processes—things like performance reviews, salary reviews, pulse surveys—you can often share the platform across locations. But when it comes to payroll—getting the actual salary right—that’s incredibly important. And that’s where we want to supply data to the appropriate system that’s specialized in payroll for that region or employee group.
Anna Carlsson: And then there’s the challenge of how various payroll systems are built. I imagine you run into this a lot. It comes back to: how have those systems been built? Can they receive data easily? Can they exchange data between systems smoothly? That’s not always the case with older payroll systems—or older HR systems, for that matter. Especially the flow from HR to payroll. Would you agree?
Mikael Wirén: Totally agree. And sometimes the payroll system sees itself as the HR system and isn’t exactly eager to integrate with anything else. Often, the integrations that do exist are based on file transfers. And those come with a host of limitations and challenges.
Everything from needing multiple different files to transfer all relevant data, to not being able to schedule updates. You have to manually track when to import the file—otherwise, if something’s off, the payroll calculations can be completely wrong. You have to be very careful. Then there are the security concerns—exporting files from an HR system filled with sensitive personal and salary data… You don’t always know where those files end up. They can easily be mishandled.
Anna Carlsson: But you’re doing it differently, right? You can connect directly?
Mikael Wirén: Yes, exactly.
Anna Carlsson: Because the classic setup is: you export a file and then manually upload it somewhere…
Mikael Wirén: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: Or you automate parts of that with a robot. But the way you’ve done it—when people talk about system integration, yours is a live connection?
Mikael Wirén: Yes.
Anna Carlsson: So no manual mistakes. Have either of you calculated how costly a single error can be? Not just the data risks, but the manual effort?
Mikael Wirén: No formal calculation—but it’s always embarrassing when a new hire doesn’t make it into the payroll system and doesn’t get paid. That really damages your employer brand. It’s those disconnects that hurt more than the time it takes to fix the error afterward.
Anna Carlsson: And how does this type of connection work technically? Can one of you explain it?
Rebecka Melander: We leave the coding to the developers—but we do have an idea of how it works.
Mikael Wirén: In this case, we’ve built an API integration.
Anna Carlsson: API stands for… Application Programming Interface, I think?
Mikael Wirén: That’s right.
Rebecka Melander: Correct.
Mikael Wirén: Glad you had that one ready.
Anna Carlsson: I have an IT background—I’m not an HR professional. Good thing I’m here!
Rebecka Melander: Yes, very glad you are.
Anna Carlsson: So how does it work?
Mikael Wirén: In this case, Hailey has opened a “window” to their data that we can connect to. Through that window, we can pull data into our system. Hailey has documented exactly what data is available, how it’s structured, and in what format. So we can adapt on our side and know exactly what to expect. The data transfer itself is encrypted and secure. And to access this “window,” you also need a bunch of credentials—it’s not like just anyone can pull the data. It’s highly secure
Anna Carlsson: So is it always live, or how does it work? When is the data fetched? Because the data has to come through somehow. Can changes be made on both sides? Could a payroll administrator make a change too? Or do you define where the changes happen—whether it’s in the payroll system or the HR system?
Mikael Wirén: In this particular case, the integration is built so that we fetch data from Hailey. We don’t send anything back. So we fetch employment data, for example, so that an administrator in our system can import employees from Hailey. When you have a new employee in the company, Payap can fetch all the information stored in Hailey. And that includes everything—from personal details to employment terms, salary, manager information—so there’s no need for double entry. It’s not two separate systems. Everything happens in Hailey, and then with just a click, that employee can be transferred.
Anna Carlsson: Is that true?
Mikael Wirén: Yes, it’s true. For real.
Anna Carlsson: And everything comes over. That goes for salary reviews too, right? If there are changes, if someone gets a raise, exceptions, all sorts of things.
Mikael Wirén: And then a key part of the integration is continuous synchronization—so when someone changes position, gets a new title or salary, you shouldn’t have to enter it in multiple systems. It should sync to us automatically.
Anna Carlsson: And employees can view their payslips too, right? Where do they see that—in the payroll system or the HR system? Can it go both ways?
Mikael Wirén: It could be done both ways, but it’s usually viewed in the payroll system, because we know exactly what tax needs to be withheld, what each deviation means in kronor and öre. So when someone wants to know “what will I actually take home next month,” our system is where that number lives.
Anna Carlsson: Based on the work I do, I’d say this is the dream scenario—that it works like this. But it’s not very common.
Rebecka Melander: No.
Anna Carlsson: So why isn’t this more common? Usually it’s the payroll system that limits things, I’d say. That’s where the barrier is. Meaning you have to make changes in the payroll system and can’t automate things in the same way.
Rebecka Melander: Absolutely.
Mikael Wirén: You’ve pretty much answered your own question.
Anna Carlsson: Yeah.
Mikael Wirén: You could say this: if you're a Hailey customer, it’s often the case that you’re starting from scratch—introducing an HR system for the first time.
Rebecka Melander: Whereas in our case, we’re typically talking to customers who already have a payroll system and are considering replacing it with something new.
Anna Carlsson: Why aren’t more systems like this? It should work like this.
Mikael Wirén: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: Is it because HR systems have this legacy, this history, that makes it hard to change?
Mikael Wirén: Right—and to keep developing that thought: HR systems have really exploded in recent years. More and more organizations are adopting them, and then we—modern payroll systems—come in a bit later and can sell to those customers who already use Hailey or other modern platforms.
Rebecka Melander: And we notice that too, with customers who haven’t taken that step yet. It’s about habits—and also the perception that switching systems is a huge undertaking. The organization needs to have resources, time… I totally understand why it seems like a big deal to replace a payroll system. It can be nerve-wracking—payroll is critical. So that image is very strongly held out there. Some companies don’t even consider it—don’t realize it’s possible to switch. What’s unfortunate, from the HR system side, is that sometimes the digital transformation of the whole organization gets held back. If you’ve bought Hailey and want to automate as much as possible—but we’re stuck doing file transfers once a month—then we can’t go all the way. So it’s about organizational courage, being willing to challenge the payroll side, which is often very established. We’d love to change that perception that it’s this untouchable thing.
Mikael Wirén: Yes, exactly. Switching payroll systems doesn’t have to be that difficult—at least not when you’re switching to Payap. We’ve tried to automate a lot and make the onboarding as smooth as possible. But I also want to add that sometimes payroll isn’t even involved when an HR system is implemented. It’s often an HR-driven project, and payroll just has to adapt afterward. Suddenly, they’re being handed a file that they’re expected to import into their system every month—without having been part of the change process.
Anna Carlsson: I think there are several things at play here. First, there's what I call “computerizing”—where you take a manual process and simply drop it into a system without changing much else. That happened with payroll a long time ago. The process was adapted to fit the system, and those systems were built before SaaS was even a thing—back when everything was installed locally and customized. Plus, the people who work in payroll have often been doing it for a long time. They’re veterans—what we affectionately call “old pros.” And it’s not something that many focus on improving. There’s a big threshold to cross. HR systems, on the other hand, get talked about a lot. There are tons of vendors out there pushing the conversation forward.
Rebecka Melander: Absolutely.
Anna Carlsson: With payroll systems, not so much. It’s like: “We’ve got what we’ve got—we’ll just live with it.” But that’s exactly where the opportunity is, if you’re willing to take it. For those who have made the change—what drove them? Was it a desire to modernize? What’s usually behind the decision to switch payroll systems?
Mikael Wirén: Often, it starts with implementing an HR system. And people think: “Payroll will sort itself out.” But then they realize—nope, it’s not working the way we thought. So in phase two, they evaluate their payroll setup. And yes, we’ve absolutely had customers choose to switch payroll systems in order to get a better, more integrated process that works with the HR system they’ve just adopted.
Anna Carlsson: Any specific type of customer? I’d imagine tech companies would see the benefits here.
Mikael Wirén: Definitely. Modern companies that are open to trying new technology, who are curious about this kind of solution.
Anna Carlsson: Do people switch out their HR systems too now? Or is that slower? Maybe it’s the early adopters—or the ones who didn’t have an HR system at all?
Rebecka Melander: We’re definitely seeing both. As we said earlier, there are still organizations that didn’t have an HR system in place. But yes, we’re also seeing a lot of switching between systems—based on what features they offer and how well they integrate with others. People are lifting their gaze a bit and thinking: “OK, we’ve solved our HR needs—what’s the next link in the chain?” So yes, definitely switching between systems.
Anna Carlsson: I still don’t see as many as I’d expect. I mean, HR systems have the same legacy as payroll systems. It’s just that more new vendors have dared to enter the HR space. But there’s a lot of history in HR too—and that creates resistance. And maybe if you’re a trained HR professional, you don’t necessarily think in terms of “this can be changed.” You just adapt.
Rebecka Melander: There’s definitely a lot of habit involved—on the HR side, and especially on the payroll side. But also on the HR side. If you have a system, you learn to work with and around it. But it’s so important to lift your perspective. We see it ourselves—when we talk to customers and get into these shared areas where HR and payroll overlap, we often get a lot of feedback and requests. Sometimes they ask for things that we don’t believe fall within our domain.
So we turn the question back to the customer: “Have you checked if your payroll system can handle this?” Because we believe it belongs in payroll. And the answer is often: “No.” So we definitely see that dynamic—when people raise their perspective, they come to the modern vendor and expect us to solve these problems. But we have our own vision of what we’re here to solve. That’s why we’re happy when players like Payap step in and take responsibility for solving those things smoothly—so we don’t have to go too far into the payroll space.
Anna Carlsson: That brings us back to what you said earlier about your role—the tricky balance I’ve been criticized for before, when I challenge things and question what vendors should actually provide. It’s that difficult balancing act between what the customer wants—ideally, everything! They want full payroll handling, everything, all in the one vendor they like best. And then it becomes a question of boundaries: what do you want to take responsibility for, what’s your focus?
Rebecka Melander: Absolutely.
Anna Carlsson: And that goes for both of you, I think.
Rebecka Melander: If we tried to solve all of our customers’ problems, then we’d also be handling forklift certifications and payroll disbursements, and benefits management, and everything else. So it’s really important to draw those boundaries—so we can be great at what we do want to solve. A solution that tries to do everything ends up being difficult to access and use for organizations. Absolutely.
Anna Carlsson: But you have a customer you wanted to talk about, right? A shared one? A good example that covers everything we’ve been talking about.
Mikael Wirén: I think so.
Anna Carlsson: Which customer is it?
Mikael Wirén: It’s Bokadirekt. We first met them about a year ago. At that point, they had already implemented Hailey.
Anna Carlsson: Can I just ask first—sorry to interrupt—but can you give us a bit of context? How are they structured? How many employees do they have, that kind of thing?
Mikael Wirén: They have around 100 employees, and I believe there’s a bit of staff turnover—so new hires are a regular thing.
Anna Carlsson: I can imagine. It’s a digital company, right? Modern, forward-thinking—maybe even first-job type of place for some roles.
Mikael Wirén: Right. So they had implemented Hailey when we met, and they were using an older payroll system that didn’t integrate with Hailey at all. We showed them what the integration could look like, and we clicked immediately. After just a couple of meetings, we started working together—and one month later, we ran their first payroll. The onboarding process with Payap went incredibly smoothly, because all the data already existed in Hailey. We basically just started the integration, pulled in all the employees, and ran payroll—just like that.
Anna Carlsson: That sounds a bit... should we repeat that? It took one month?
Mikael Wirén: It took one month from signing the contract to running the first payroll. Yes, that’s absolutely true—for about 100 employees. Pretty amazing.
Anna Carlsson: And what do they say themselves?
Mikael Wirén: They’re very happy. Another great thing happened just recently: they had gone through a salary review using Hailey’s salary module, and all the new salaries needed to be transferred to us. It was just one click to sync everything. And we handle all the calculations—so if there are retroactive payments or differences, we take care of that automatically. One click, and all the new salaries were in place—everyone got the right pay the following month.
Anna Carlsson: I imagine people listening to this are thinking “wow…” But can’t this also scare payroll admins a bit? Depending on who they are and where they’re coming from?
Mikael Wirén: Sure, it can. Some might be skeptical and think it sounds too good to be true—or that there’s something fishy going on. It might even bring up fear: “Wait, if everything runs automatically, what will I do?” But that’s not the point. Payroll specialists are still incredibly important, with all their expertise. It’s just that we want to eliminate the tedious manual tasks—like entering employee contracts by hand. That shouldn’t be necessary anymore. We want to streamline that.
Anna Carlsson: And we all know that a small error during manual entry can have huge consequences. So often, those kinds of problems just pile up. Removing that is a big win. But how fun to hear! I’ll have to look a bit more closely when I book something through Bokadirekt now.
Rebecka Melander: Hopefully, they have very happy employees and managers.
Anna Carlsson: And we know that happy employees and managers—well, that leads to good business results too.
Rebecka Melander: Absolutely. No doubt about it.
Anna Carlsson: Should we talk a bit more about the platforms themselves? Now that people have heard about the benefits of integration and the value of that connection. Should we dig in a bit? Who wants to start—should we talk more about payroll systems? Or have we covered it?
Mikael Wirén: I think one of the biggest differences—aside from being user-friendly and clean—is that in our system, all calculations happen in real time. That lets us build features that are completely unique. For example, we can always show a forecast for the employee’s upcoming salary. As soon as someone registers something—like a sick day or vacation—we can show how it will impact the next paycheck. You don’t have to wait for your next payslip to see what your VAB day (temporary parental leave) will cost. You can see it right away. That’s our big USP: real-time payroll.
Anna Carlsson: I can see why—that’s amazing. But do people still pay salaries in the traditional way? Like the 25th of the month? Or do some pay every two weeks?
Mikael Wirén: For now, yes—it’s still mostly traditional. Even though our system supports things like daily payouts, our current customers haven’t adopted that yet. But yes, they still pay on the 25th. Some parts of our system are still traditional—you still need to report to the tax agency, extract accounting reports, and so on. But we do all of that in a modern, user-friendly interface.
Anna Carlsson: I remember this being a hot topic a few years ago—being able to pay temps or hourly workers right after their shift. Is that something you support?
Mikael Wirén: Yes, we can do that.
Anna Carlsson: But does anyone actually do it?
Mikael Wirén: Not among our current customers. They tend to be companies with a couple hundred employees—not the kinds of businesses that operate like that. But in the future, we can definitely imagine restaurants or other service industries wanting to pay more frequently.
Anna Carlsson: Yeah, like extra staff in retail or restaurants. Or maybe even healthcare. Maybe not as easy there—but retail and hospitality want to pay right away so people get their money as soon as they’ve worked.
Mikael Wirén: Exactly! Especially if you’re working with young employees who prefer to get paid quickly and often rather than once a month.
Anna Carlsson: People don’t talk about that as much anymore. Now we’re more into four-day work weeks and stuff like that. But anything is possible.
Mikael Wirén: Anything’s possible.
Anna Carlsson: What else do you want to say about Hailey today?
Rebecka Melander: Well, we’ve touched on this already, but our “cycle” is the employee lifecycle—not the monthly payroll cycle. That journey starts when you hire a new star and goes all the way to offboarding. Everything in between should run smoothly. We want managers and employees to want to use the platform—not just because they have to. We believe that’s a huge difference. Too many systems are either unused or only used because people are forced to. We want to change that.
Anna Carlsson: One final question—if you want to share your thoughts. We haven’t prepared this one!
Rebecka Melander: Exciting!
Anna Carlsson: What are your thoughts on AI integration in your platforms? Generative AI or otherwise? Do you see potential?
Rebecka Melander: We started integrating AI a couple of years ago. We started with generative AI—mainly around content generation, like creating templates for performance reviews. No personal data involved there. But where personal data is involved, we’re building our own language model—hosted on European servers—so we can control everything. That’s super important these days. Organizations can also turn these features on or off themselves. So: generative AI is live, and the rest is being built securely.
Anna Carlsson: Interesting! And you, Mikael? Can AI be useful in payroll too?
Mikael Wirén: Absolutely!
Anna Carlsson: Good to hear!
Mikael Wirén: Same thing for us. We’re very careful with sensitive data. Right now, we haven’t released any AI-based features yet, but we’ve started building the first ones—and customers will be able to choose whether to use them.
Anna Carlsson: As a closing question—if someone wants to do something new, make a change—what should they think about? Whether it’s buying something new or just rethinking things, especially for HR systems?
Rebecka Melander: It’s so important to start with your own organization. What systems do you already have? Which ones do you love and won’t replace? Which ones aren’t serving you anymore? If something needs replacing, don’t let that system dictate what everything else must work around. Focus on what’s causing friction—and dare to challenge it. Start with your organization’s needs.
Anna Carlsson: Totally agree. I just heard from someone the other day: “Please help me convince my HR director not to start by shopping for systems before understanding our needs.” You have to start with the needs.
Rebecka Melander: Absolutely!
Anna Carlsson: When it comes to payroll—you should at least ask the question. I actually did an episode with an organization that ran into serious issues because they didn’t include payroll in their HR project. It went badly. Is that common?
Rebecka Melander: Very common.
Mikael Wirén: I’d say so, yes.
Rebecka Melander: When I worked with implementations at Hailey, it was quite common for payroll to be brought in very late—after decisions had been made and the implementation was already underway. It’s only when we started looking at the bigger picture that someone would go, “Oh right, payroll needs this data too.” It’s surprisingly common.
Anna Carlsson: Maybe it’s because digitization isn’t everyone’s core skill or job. I think it really helps to have someone to bounce ideas off—someone with an outside perspective. Any last thoughts before we wrap up?
Rebecka Melander: Just a big thank you!
Mikael Wirén: Thank you so much!
Anna Carlsson: Thank you both for coming and sharing all of this. Super exciting!
Rebecka Melander: So much fun—thank you!
